Curse

IlikeGW · May 08, 2008, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Anet is free to ignore it, so who cares? But if you don't understand what moaning is, it's oftentimes actually constructive criticism about fixing problems, bugs, bad gameplay issues... god forbid such advice be offered up. Clearly Anet is a God that doesn't need any help, right?

Just to be sure let's check their average critical ratings for games from the collected data at gamerankings:

Guild Wars: 89%
Guild Wars Factions: 85%
Nightfall: 83%
Eye of the North: 80%

Hmm... wait a minute a declining trend. I guess the power of fanboy love isn't magically making them the best gamemaker they can be! Quick everyone, love harder, it will work!

Ctb · May 08, 2008, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

what I meant to say is stop Anet bashing!

No.

It's called customer feedback. If people stopped "bashing ANET" then ANET wouldn't know what does and doesn't work as far as changes that keep their player base engaged. If that happens, they don't know how to tailor future products to their target audience as well. If that happens, they make an inferior product.

What I mean to say is, stop venerating businesses. Just because most of the GWG community is immature and shrill doesn't mean they should stop complaining. They should probably make an attempt to complain more productively rather than just outright whining like giant babies, but that's a different thing entirely.

Quote:

dont we live in Democracy?

Yes, at least I do, but that has nothing to do with this since your right to free speech in this democracy is only relevant in reference to the government.

Seef II · May 08, 2008, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Simplest reason: People bitch because they are the ones sending ArenaNet money by buying the games. Now, if Anet doesn't shape up and change things, those players might leave, and no more dollars for Anet. Of course, despite what a bunch of the whiners say, we have classic battered wife syndrome - no matter how Anet balances, they stick with the game and keep complaining.

Darkobra · May 08, 2008, 06:37 PM // 18:37

We're their current and future customers. They want to hear our feedback good or bad.

And yes, I WOULD play the game without grind. But nice attempt at thinking like the rest of the sheep.

Steboy93 · May 08, 2008, 06:37 PM // 18:37

By the looks of the new z-chest update it seems like anet have set themselves up for a LOT more 'bashing' in the weeks to come.

Fangclaw · May 08, 2008, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Think of it this way, maybe the OP meant that sometimes our moaning isnt constructive or helping in any way. Its just moaning and nothing more; merely complaints that arent always polite by the way.

Sometimes, and I insist on that word, moaning is just an hindrance to development and it brings nothing new.

P.S. Feel free to switch ''sometimes'' for something else, as if I'd care...

Abedeus · May 08, 2008, 06:41 PM // 18:41

We have the right to moan because this isn't a freakin' Nazism. As long as we don't insult or offend other people, we can say what bothers us.

Oh, and if they ignore us now, we will ignore their later games. That's why Blizzard didn't abandon Diablo II and other games right after WoW's premiere or shortly before it - he knew, that people wouldn't trust them as much as they do now.

netniwk · May 08, 2008, 06:42 PM // 18:42

The freedom of speech?

Loviatar · May 08, 2008, 06:43 PM // 18:43

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smile Like Umean It

It isn't a right to moan, it's a right to leave feedback and better a game. Without it I doubt there would be anywhere near the amount of improvements or increase in the amount of players that this or any other game has.

bs

quote jeff strain mayby you heard of him?

Quote:

Don't assume that most of your players are reading your website and consuming information about your game. Most of your players will never read your website, never visit fansites, and never participate in forum discussions. We are often immersed in the community forums and rants and raves posted to game fansites, and it is easy to lose perspective about the knowledge level of most of our players.

Taurucis · May 08, 2008, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Dumb titles like this.

On a more serious note...

There is a fine line between moaning and constructive criticism... like "<Area> is buggy! Fix it now!" and "There is an <area> that is perhaps glitched somehow, you guys might want to take a look at this."

As the leader from an old guild said... "A negative answer is better than silence."

If we didn't "moan" about Guild Wars, Anet would not know how their game is doing... the fact that the Riverside Inn pops out a brawl every time something outrageous happens means that they're getting feedback.

StormDragonZ · May 08, 2008, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Those who complain either play way too fast, never bother to challenge themselves... or hell, even bother to consider the fact that it's a game which means you have fun playing it. If you have to GO RED ENGINE about something you don't like, don't play the game.

Last thing people want are problems that can't be solved without the need to GO RED ENGINE all the time.

IattackU · May 08, 2008, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steboy93

By the looks of the new z-chest update it seems like anet have set themselves up for a LOT more 'bashing' in the weeks to come.

What new z-chest update?

Edit: Nvm, but I actually like that update.

Ctb · May 08, 2008, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormDragonZ

Those who complain either play way too fast, never bother to challenge themselves... or hell, even bother to consider the fact that it's a game which means you have fun playing it. If you have to GO RED ENGINE about something you don't like, don't play the game.

Last thing people want are problems that can't be solved without the need to GO RED ENGINE all the time.

If you really believe that, you're probably part of the reason that our consumer culture is so horribly defective these days.

It's called self-interest. You should look into having some. Like I said above, the WAY the GWG community complains is usually pretty pathetic (and I admit to falling into that trap myself), but that doesn't mean they shouldn't complain, it just means they should complain in more constructive ways.

Kaleban · May 08, 2008, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by roshanabey2

but you bash and bully them, and expect so much them from them. The fact that you expect so much delivered.[/I]

Its hard for customers on the client side to bash and bully a big business into doing what they want. And I wouldn't exactly call "Waah no ecto drop stupid ANet" bashing and bullying. ANet can simply type /ignore on those posts, if they really cared about EVERY single customer's desires they'd be paralyzed into inaction by the sheer enormity of requests.

ANet is like any other business, please as many people as possible as long as possible while raking in maximum profit. Forum boards constitute a incredibly small minority of the player base, and while some may argue that represents a good cross-section, I would tend to doubt that, especially the ones that have more than 100 posts, they would be "hardcore" gamers compared to a population majority.

But, while we the player may be a slave to ANet's vision and plans, they in turn are slaves to our collective wallets. The only thing that generally changes a game's structure is a mass exodus of players, and by that time its too late to fix because the word is out. The one thing loyal players can hope for in a game like this is for responsible developers who actually do want to turn out the best game, not just the most profit.

ANet's business model is also different from MMOs like WoW, BUT they planned for that and advertised their game like that as a selling point, so their obligation to the player who spends $50 every quarter or bi-yearly is the same as to a game where its $14.99 a month. PLUS WoW has a lot more content for PvE, and while the graphics may be cartoonish, WoW is built more robustly and has no loading screens (or VERY few).

WoW gets around the title grind that GW has by not having titles. Instead they have grind for items and a plethora of them that far exceeds what is in Guild Wars. ANY MMO has grind, especially PvE side, its the nature of the beast. The developer who comes up with a grindless online RPG is ftw. A game like Morrowind or Oblivion has no real grind, unless you have players that MUST have 100s in every stat. But those are offline.

A game that is balanced class wise, and with a system that rewards skill at playing and not grinding would however, fail utterally I think commercially. The reason? The vast majority of gamers are not very skilled, so would quickly be turned off by a game that solely rewards player ability. Why would you want to play a game you suck at?

Like I said, grind is a necessity, to level out the playing field as it were. ANet's business model while different from pay-to-play MMOs does not alleviate it from user feedback and criticism. Lastly, expected number of hours of gameplay is not really a yardstick in MMOs, because its up to the player, since there is no "end-game" really. Yes you can beat the last mission, but then there's Hard Mode! And don't forget PvP.

So I mill moan as much as I want, call me whiny, but I think in the end ANY feedback to a developer is constructive, I highly doubt Izzy sits at a desk with a box of kleenex to wipe away the tears when someone complains about ecto drop rates...

Steboy93 · May 08, 2008, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by IattackU

What new z-chest update?

http://www.guildwars.com/competitive...ds/default.php

^Clicky.

Red Sonya · May 08, 2008, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Actually a lot of people moan/complain just to stir things up on the forums. Oh I see it everyday by basically the same load of people. Feedback comes within the flamewars and the name calling and the immaturity of most here, but, it's still feedback nonetheless that Anet can filter thru once they get past all the stirrings.

Fact is there will always be moaning and gnawing and gnashing of teeth throughout eternity there's a book that says so.

**cosyfiep** · May 08, 2008, 06:57 PM // 18:57

the only way to improve the game is to get feedback from the players who bought it (or whose parents bought it for them)....and thats where the fansites come in....not everything that is posted is good, not all is bad.....its then the job of the company producing said game to weed out the good from the bad.

for example: exploits....the devs sit in the nice little room ...oblivious to the outside....on the fansite 'hey try this great xxx and you get yyy' exploit...one of the team reads it.....and says 'oh my we never saw THAT coming' and move at the pace of a turtle to get it fixed.....

without us they would never see the angry mob congregating outside their offices with the tar and feathers and pitchforks!

StormDragonZ · May 08, 2008, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

...but that doesn't mean they shouldn't complain, it just means they should complain in more constructive ways

Exactly. A reason to complain over something needs a reason worth reading, knowing and understanding. I probably should have mentioned that in my previous post.

Albert Algorn · May 08, 2008, 07:01 PM // 19:01

It's called constructive criticism. Everyone has a right to an opinion and to voice it. If they listen we might help improve the game for everyone.

Esan · May 08, 2008, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Guys, what gives you the right to complain about the OP's post? I mean, really now!